Fanhouse is a start-up I founded to empower creators, and we pay our creators 90% of transactions. Apple is kicking us off the app store unless we give them 30% of all transactions. Apple is a trillion-dollar company, and they get there by exploiting the labor of others. (1/)
We will get through this and everything else, beauties!!! I love Fanhouse and the concept. Bumps and grinds to be expected.
30% out of your own profits means you would still be stealing 70% of what you were. its theft no matter how you cut it. get absolutely fucked, apples not doing anything different than you
What is the technical implementation of the coins? Would you say they`re more "database entries" or more "cryptocurrency tokens" on the backend?
Can you both help with the subsplit ? For this thread with 21,000 upvotes. You mentioned , Im jumping in on this. Sorry you are going through this with your app. I and many others have have been fighting for a bigger subsplit for this post with over 21,000 upvotes yet no word from twitch. Check my profile for link to the twitch uservoice post
This rant is irrational. A $3T market cap means the stock held by investors is worth that much. Think of it as the price Apple would have to pay to buy its freedom. This isnt money Apple can legally spend or freely give away.
Why don`t you take a flat rent of the transaction then? You complain about the 30% because of X and you do X (or well X/3) You had all my attention until you used that argument
How necessary is the app to the entire experience? Can`t fans use your site solely by browser?
Not to try to hate or anything, but why not just leave apple, make your own website and rub it from there. I`m sure your fan base will be loyal to you over apple 1000%. Sucks for apple users getting of apple store but, it`s their parent company that`s making the problem.
You gotta give daddy their cut
Lots of reasons to never buy apple. Slave like labor in China is a big one for me. Wow, I`m appalled by some (A LOT) of these responses. I absolutely hate the apple ecosystem and this reason is on the top of my list. A lot of people just don`t understand what you`re saying, and better yet, try to defend something they know nothing about. Keep the great work!
why do you let exploit yourselves? Who forces you to join the app store?
Was hoping the Epic lawsuit would lead to maybe some changes but they still hold an absolutely oppressive stranglehold on apps. Really need to be slapped by the ftc but the chances of that are about zero
Well said.
Not sure how privacy laws work but cant you track apple subscribers email and tell them they save $4 by subscribing on web?
The iCult out in force defending their favorite corporation I see
For the record, I chose my pseudo first xD
This sucks, and I can`t say I have a solution you haven`t already thought of. Not surprised at all to hear Apple is doing this. This is just one more reason why I do not buy Apple and discourage anyone I know from doing so as well.
WebApps have come a long way. Maybe move away from device-based apps and move toward WebApps.
I dont use fanhouse but good on you for sticking up for your creators. People saying you should just shut up and pay your creators less clearly don`t understand why you even do what you do.
Didn`t the Epic vs Apple case result in an injunction that allows you to have a call to action to direct users to an external site for payments? Are they forcing compliance now because it`s before the injunction`s deadline?
I could be wrong, but epic games just set a legal precedent against apple that I think would be beneficial in your situation
On Twitch, the creator only receives 50% of subscription revenue. So if you pay $5 for a Tier 1 sub, Twitch takes $2.50 of it.
They do this to ALL apps on the store. You arent special. Its completely within their right since its THEIR platform to take a cut. Grow up thats how Business works. Also before you say google is any better Do yall not read before putting your apps on their store? Was the 30% fee a surprise? Im not saying its fair but come on you cant agree to terms and then get mad when theyre enforced.
And people wanted to side with apple against epic saying that creators deserve a better split
Although I do agree that the 30% expense is too much, the reason Netflix and other big apps dont get nailed is there is no subscription option on iOS, you HAVE to manage payment outside of the app for them. Lots do it that way to skip the fees.
all of these corporations make mad money off of the 99% they better chill before we organize and demand decent treatment
I cannot believe the number of people in this thread standing up for a fucking trillion dollar mega corporation. They have us by the threads, we`re doomed lol.
This is what happens when people fanboi over a company. You don`t want to drop support for iOS because of the large install base, but you also don`t want to have to pay them. It`s great to want to give 90% gross to creators, but it isn`t practical. 90% of NET makes more sense.
I used to be a phone operator for apple tech support, but myself and many others worked on a non-apple site. Because of this, someone working directly through apple, from home, with less than half the training and resources, would be paid at least twice as much as us. We got 14/h
sounds like you want something for nothing, you are not reselling products you purchased, you are selling ideas, raise your prices!
Please don`t believe EPIC is fighting for anyone but them. They are just a billion dollar company going after another billion dollar company to benefit themselves. Ask yourself why aren`t they going after XBOX, PS, or Nintendo for the same practice to help Indie devs?Why?Why?
What about Android? How Google handles that?
Thank you for trying to resolve this as best as you can. Sadly the richest generally get their via exploiting the lower earning.
I seem to recall (i think it was) Spotify, before their exemption, marking up the subscription price in the app, then having text under the buy button to the effect of "If you want the regular price buy it on Web" Apple flipped their shit.
decentralized currency is the way crypto
The developers of the Floatplane app tried using the exact error message that the Netflix app shows and Apple rejected their update
Ngl didnt read the whole thread but i liked it all good luck
Funny how legal entities are looking into subscription models for Xbox live and PSN. And looking at xbox`s buy on blizzard activion as monopolising yet apple get to charge a hidden tax how is that even legal shops and everyone else have to be upfront yet apple get away with it?
I thought that the Epic lawsuit ended with this rule being loosened and Apple had to allow links to 3rd party payment processors? Companies like yours are why corporate social responsibility is dead.
I think this is the point that developers need to attack. As an organisation & productive business it seems an arbitrary & unfair restriction to foist on devs. You should be able to direct people to your business, say what you do and what you offer outside of their eco system imo
Um... What? I mean yes apple does do a lot of exploitation I agree with you there but what did you expect with the app store? Of course you have to pay, everyone does, you have to pay for the play store as well...
This is nothing new, and that 30% is in the contract you agreed to when submitting the app to the Apple store in the first place. You already agreed to them taking 30%, you can`t really argue the point now.
Start paying it than.
It`s nothing personal just business
I mean you`re using the Apple store which is their product to promote your own product. We can agree that 30% might be a hefty fee, but it`s a fee you agreed to pay when using Apples product
Would it be possible to send out an email to users? You can also tell them that its easily possible to add a shortcut icon to the website on their iOS device as if it were an app so they can easily use that to purchase coins!
Any journalists up to picking up this story??? I bet theres a deep investigative dive they could go into
render A cautionary point: I`ve seen businesses in their growth stages bemoan unfair tactics that take advantage of creators and customers, only to take up those practices themselves when they got big enough to get away with it. When the time comes -- don`t forget, don`t rationalize!
Sorry to hear this is the case. I guess one idea though not a perfect solution but most phone browsers are pretty good, so maybe focus on improving mobile web rendering and discontinue the iOS app?
I didnt realize this decision had been put on hold but holding out hope this is confirmed soon
Apple`s app store is a directory -- nothing more. I`ve noticed a trend of referrers taking a bigger and bigger bite out of the profits of those being referred to, despite the fact that THEY PRODUCE NOTHING. Why should producers continue to bow to the demands of the middle men?
do you agree with this?
Android phones have larger market share than iOS devices. Plus the OS is open ended so you wouldn`t even have to list your app soley on the Google play store. There`s your market.
You do know many malls ask % of transactions? And airports ask really huge % of all transactions. And they don`t even process those. What`s the difference?
Can you just make the iaps extremely expensive and tell everyone not to use them, then let them take 30%?
Stop. Using. Apple. Use. Android. The US has an obsession with apple
Your whole thread is good, but I was disappointed remembering a selfie you tweeted a few weeks ago holding one of Apple`s newest phones. I think we have great power as consumers when we choose not to feed the beast. Getting Apple to change starts with not buying their products.
Decentralization is the key. Look at blockchain business model if not the Weeping will continue, Apple is a business and that is their design, personally I feel your pain but let your pain be your motivator.
Epic games had the same fight with Apple. I`ll never support Apple as long as I live.
I`m sorry but if epic games couldn`t win this case I don`t think you have a shot
Fwiw, this happened to FB as well and they blocked the update to inform users that Apple is the one taking the 30% cut. Actual solution: ditch the app store. Anything else is wishful cope.
Extremely ignorant post for a multitude of reasons. Apple gives you a platform full of customers and tech they built over decades and you expect free access to that? Foolish and greedy. Also your fee drops to 15% after 1 year, could almost be done if you didnt dodge it.
This bites. I was just mentioning how a service like this should exist, and only got a snarky reply about how yeah we all just wish people would throw money at us so we could make things happen. I hope your project finds even more success.
I remember talking about this on WAN Show when it came to the Floatplane app- same exact issue! What a terrible, manipulative, and ruthless company.
Keep fighting the good fight. fuckapple
Google laughing their butts off for doing the same thing and not taking any blame. Raise your fee. Apple pays thousands of developers every week. Thousands of security specialists. Countless employees all to protect the Apple user. They are not a non profit. You want access to a billion users and have your app thrive??!! Raise your fee and stop whining!!
would love to see you cover this on the show and bring more awareness to people
You could mimic Patreon`s model It is what it is, unfortunately. :/ It`s all about profit and money in a capitalist society...
The biz app Im product owner for has around $1M revenue a year for downloads, mostly iOS. We obviously pay out a lot to Apple and Google on an annual basis. We have a responsive web site as well, but as you know the app experience is way better. Its an unfortunate cost of biz.
Any way to make the app free, but only accessible by members, with the caveat being sign-ups only occur on the web?
FALSE! Apple is getting their due. They built the iPhone, the App Store and the developer kit you use to make your app. You want all this and the marketplace for FREE?? is that right?? Stop twisting the truth!
And Apple should now be burdened with your situation? Have you asked Walmart not to charge you the advertised prices because your of situations?? Craaasiee!
Maybe choose another way to make income. Clearly you failed at calculating the economy scale your app was going to need to make X amount. Now you`re crying for sympathy. LOLoser
Same for us. We created a platform for personal trainers to teach workout programs online, which helped them when gyms were closed so they couldn`t get customers. They relied on the monthly subscription of users, but bc it was "Digital content", IAP was forced and Apple took 30%.
So don`t be in business. It`s not your work (iPhone, App Store, marketplace, customers) Also: goto any supermarket or large retailer and ask how much they take from a manufacture to allow them on to the shelves. All this entitlement makes you look like the baby you are. VOMIT
Do you cry when you goto Walmart and demand they lower their prices because you don`t have enough money? Curious here. Apple isn`t forcing you to develop anything. Maybe find a more lucrative career path.
I think what Apple is doing is bullshit I support 2 people on fanhouse and I will continue to do so. I know people will blame you for this but it`s not your fault. I appreciate the fact your still fighting to get this reverse. Thank you
Alternate read of the same facts: you want to make money for free based on the labor of others, including the creators and the delivery system that Apple built.
So apple should just give you everything for free ??? Wakeup
Local twitter user learns running a business costs money Who would have thought
Fight like a boss girl! Maybe go fund me to finance a lawsuit?
Sucks epic games couldnt change this
this is terrible im sorry this is happening to you guys!
read this thread
Dam, another reason not to ever buy Apple, 30%, are they crazy???
That was a THREAD! You have the terms. You didnt like the terms, so now you are trying to change the terms by going public? Exploiting the public to try and sway terms more favorably for you? All while owning an iPhone and supporting that eco system you claim to be against in this thread. Do better
Didnt a judge recently make a ruling that they legally had to allow alternate payment methods that didnt extract/tax 30% of earnings from it`s app developers/creators? Or was that only for Epic Games/Google & not for everyone? Great tweet! Will you come on our podcast and talk about this effed up practice?
This is also why subs are $7USD on Twitch, which is actually much worse, because Twitch already takes half, so creators are actually only getting $2.50 (before taxes) on $7, or about a third Apple is running a racket on IAPs. Solidarity and good luck with that fight
On one hand it`s well known that`s their charge, but on the other it`s still a fair chunk Could you make it only the website accepts payments and the app checks what the user has paid but doesn`t actually accept payments?
Yeah, its messed up, I agree - its price gouging. On the other hand youre paying for the distribution channel, the trust & support their ecosystem brings to customers, & potentially more throughput with streamlined payments. I suggest bifurcating web/iOS and try it out.
Android/ Google would never lmao
Apple store is a store owned by apple and you need them to be in the market. No matter what your argument is, you are always gonna loose in the court of law because it is their god damn store.
