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End the #AppleBrowserBan Apple: stop holding the web back
September 21, 2021, 2:56 am
End the AppleBrowserBan Apple: stop holding the web back by banning competing browser engines.
Stop using apple products then fan boy.
Well I associate PWA with installable - thats the usual criticism of PWA on iOS. I dont use it that way. Now if supporting those apis is all we need, the ios already does a great job at it. I will keep the native app though, seems way more polished. I dont use it as a PWA.
have you worked w react-native-web? if so thoughts?
No thanks. Chrome is already killing the web as it is.
Microsoft did the same thing ... they eventually lost that battle. Everyone was mad when MS did it ... the fan boys get sad when anyone points it out about apple...
worst browser in web development is safari
That said, I`m generally in favor of Apple being forced to put more resources into Safari, and their software generallyeverything I`ve heard from Apple team members indicates that they deliberately under-hire for the amount of work that needs to be done, which is frustrating.
I meant on all platforms. I use Edge or Chrome on Windows and Linux, and the website experience is just as bad there. (Except YouTube. YouTube is unbelievably and specifically bad in Safari. But the native app is just as bad or worse.)
It prevents a large spectrum of attacks and hacks from working or makes them significantly harder - same reason consoles also block JIT or MacOS on M1 now makes you jump through additional hoops to get JIT rights. I believe it is worth it,
To the first point here, I can see a counter: if other browser engines can be installed but not used for in-app browsing, you`re actually increasing the number of potential attack surfaces. OTOH, if third-party browsers can be used in-app, less control of user experience.
You said millions of users were not compromised. I showed the compromise existed. The millions are a high bar to meet, we just get lucky, but I rather not rely on luck to not be hacked
Mostly I don`t want *your* preference forced on *me*. I recognize that i can probably turn off notifications for the browser specifically, but if I`m honest, I don`t really want website devs expecting to be able to send me push notifications.
Google 0day chrome, 0day edge, 0day Firefox
But I recall from Security at UCSD with that the issue was that the js JIT can be used to create new classes of vulnerabilities. But that was a long time ago, perhaps allowing JIT compilation can now be done safely?
I personally would use a native app for any of these purposes because the experience is wildly better across the board. \_()_/
You`ve pretty famously been able to install webapps since the first release of iOS. That said, I`ll take the 50MB native app every time. For whatever reason, the quality of native apps is almost universally better than websites. (And yes, I use Blink-based browsers elsewhere.)
I mean, there are attacks against the non-safari browsers running on macOS that would not occur if macOS only ran Safari. (Not that Id be in favor of that)
@lostbodhisattva - You ordered a Starbuck coffee from their website and want to be notified when it`s ready for pickup - You searched for a flight and want to set a price alert so you can come back and book when the price has fallen
I absolutely NEVER want push notifications from websites. You want to send me push notifications, you build a native app.
@lostbodhisattva - Service workers, which enable websites to work offline reliably, delayed by Safari for 3 years - No web app install prompts, forcing users to install a massive 50MB app when a 500kB website would work just fine - The list goes on...
Setting aside the other things, which absolutely sound valid, what on earth is the use case for push notifications in a web browser?
@lostbodhisattva - Safari has the buggiest IndexedDB implementation for years, and it recently broke completely just earlier this year. This means that user data was lost or corrupted. - Gamepad API, delayed by 5 years - Media recorder API, for video creation apps, delayed by 5 years
iOS is a richer target to attack, with 10x the user base. Hacking MacOS is just not as profitable.
The answer to this is - it`s lucrative for IOS to not allow PWA and keep everything inside their appstore ecosystem. I imagine they have the same aspirations on MacOS but it`s somewhat too late for it, and that there`s more competition there.
Nothing to do with compromising iPhones and everything to do with locking feature sets down so devs/users end up using the App Store. Its that simple.
The problem is if they allow the other engines that millions of additional iPhones that will get compromised through the web browser. I dont blame Apple for wanting to avoid that and conveniently keep the platform locked down from web based apps As a web dev I agree. Safari is shite.
But but but but... what if I make a browser engine in JS, then run that in Safari?
I think Firefox and chrome should start by removing their badge engineered apps. So many people unaware of this and do not care.
Is a company that openly campaigns in support of slave labour really going to give its users freedom of choice? Don`t know how that is still allowed. Back in the days was forced to allow the user to choose other browser instead of IE! Maybe the responsible authorities don`t understand that engine prank! free iOS browser engines!
This is a true browser ban. The REAL versions of Firefox, Edge and Chrome are banned. Instead they are forced to use only exactly what Apple provides. This means no competition, no incentive for Apple to invest in Safari. Why? Control, and to protect AppStore $$$$
Do you want non-preventable spying? Because this is how you get non-preventable spying.
Wait.... You can`t use Chrome on iOS?
In Korea they got f`d now they are forced to accept other payment methods. Other app stores and this too are next. The monopoly crap needs to stop
In a way I want to switch to they ship a Gecko-based browser by default, isn`t dominated by either Apple or Google, is a EU company so probably knows a bit about GDPR etc. Sadly though they seems to use a Gecko from Firefox 60 just quit apple :-) ...and promote it
Apple and Google are a monopoly at this point. They co-operate in censoring people.
Apples Safari really is a major pain at the moment. Especially if you`re developing pwas. I think the web would be the best Plattform for 99% of apps but with apple holding back you have to fall back to crutches like capacitor.
A few days ago I tweeted something similar